Alton Sterling Shooting - Justified?

Discussion in 'Debate' started by Nazi, Jul 7, 2016.

  1. Nazi

    Nazi High Roller High Roller

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    Quick Description of situation:
    Alton Sterling, a 37-year-old black man, was shot and killed by officers of the Baton Rouge Police Department on Tuesday

    Let's take a look at the videos and the evidence it shows.

    Video #1 [NSFW] - What does it show?
    1. At 1 second you can hear the first tazor being discharged followed with "Get on the ground!"
    2. At 6 seconds you can hear the second tazor being discharged
    3. At 10 seconds Alton is tackled to the ground
    4. 14 - 27 seconds the officers wrestled with Sterling, who is struggling on his back
    5. 28 seconds, "He's got a gun!" "Gun!" Both officers draw their guns, one at his head, one at his chest
    6. 30 seconds, "You fucking move I swear to God"
    7. 31 seconds, "He's going for the gun!"
    8. 32 seconds, 5 rounds discharged into Sterlings chest
    Video #2 [NSFW] - Takes place at roughly 25 seconds into the first video
    1. When the cop shouts "He's got a gun!", you can see Sterling's right arm free, reaching for his pocket
    2. Cop says "You fucking move I swear to God", Sterling still moving his right arm on right side
    3. 5 rounds are fired and after the cop on the ground screams "Fuck!" the other cop pulls something from Sterling's right-side pocket, not quite clear what the object is.

    Important things to note:

    Body cameras "fell off during the struggle and did not capture the shooting" according to BRPD spokesperson
    • In the second video both officers cameras can clearly be seen dangling
    Owning a handgun is legal in the state of Louisiana, BUT concealing a handgun (in his pocket) is illegal.
     
  2. Pad

    Pad ginger snap -hacked by amelia- Member

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  4. this is gonna be one of them cases where until its clearly proven what he had was a concealed firearm, and rightfully so for the time being, he's been shot innocently. plus with the argument that both body cameras have fallen off them, where as you said they're clearly shown still on the officers, it shows complacency from the force. many people also arguing he may of been dealt with a higher amount of normal force due to his previous convictions, one which included the possession of a lethal firearm.

    it'll be a debacle that goes on for weeks until all the facts are clearly known, america doesnt have the best track record though for gunning people down though
     
  5. Deity

    Deity dull Member

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  7. nope.
     
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  8. Nazi

    Nazi High Roller High Roller

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    It's a pretty dumb argument there because the police didn't know who he was until after the situation, so it would have been impossible for them to know he had a history.
    The fact that he had a history further prves the point that he was not just out there selling cds.
    It is 100%, no debate about it, that for Alton Sterling to be carrying a firearm as a FELON, is illegal. He would have gone to jail that night for carrying a gun. It just sucks that the situation spiraled out of control like that.

    From the officers point of view: If someone is trying to pull a gun on you, you don't let them. You can argue that he didn't have the gun in his hand so he wasn't "armed" but the video and witness reports say that he was indeed, going for the gun, after being told multple times by the officers to not move. It's one of those split second decisions that the officer had to make where he either let him pull the gun and possiblity shoot him, or like he did, end the situation with lethal force to protect himself and the others around him.
     
  9. Pad

    Pad ginger snap -hacked by amelia- Member

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  11. for me i feel like the officer may of decided that he either shoot the perpetrator under the mindset he has a gun, or leave him be, and as you said a split second decision which can now either be the right or wrong one.

    a lot of argument ive also seen is that he was a registered sex offender so justice is served. one person on twitter seems to be enjoying retweeting every mention about the sex offenders claim, then went on a massive rant about how he was 17 and she was 15 so that doesn't make him a sex offender. because thats logical.
     
  12. Nazi

    Nazi High Roller High Roller

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    I think that everyone needs to just stop being so quick to shout "police brutality" and look at the evidence that is in front of them.
    You can CLEARLY see in the second video that Sterling's arm was free and moving around on his right side, and then he gets shot. But you can't make out exactly what the officer pulls out of his pocket.
    And like you said, even if the officer is pressed with charges, he should be innocent until proven guilty.
    If it comes out that what the officer pulled out of his pocket was indeed a gun, how do you think a jury will see that struggle with a gun as physical evidence?
     
  13. Tyler

    Tyler SpeedySRV Member

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  15. It's going to be a case that's dismissed and/or forgotten about and you won't hear it for another year simply because there "won't be enough evidence" to prove the officer was wrong. I was discussing this with my parents today and I personally don't think it was justified to an extent but a cop does have the right to take appropriate action when they feel like their live is in danger. So when the officer and Sterling are in a struggle (which is shown in the video) and once the officer is shoved off then Sterling is reaching for his right pocket assuming he has a weapon, an officer has the right to protect themselves at that point. If the officer would have not assumed he was reaching for a gun, who's to say Sterling wouldn't have shot an officer or whomever the bystanders were at the time?

    But firing 5 shots into someone is a corrupt officer trying to prove a point. I'm sorry, but Police are trained to be sharpshooters; trained to kill on the first shot. So firing multiple shots until there's blood splatter on the front of a car and the person is lying there in a pool of blood is excessive. It all goes back to what I said - there's going to be a long investigation due to a lot of missing pieces and that's what just so happens out of coincidence when someone is killed and assumed as Police brutality.

    Not to change up the subject, but when people are all about "BLACK LIVES MATTER" and "WHITE POLICE KILLING BLACK PEOPLE." We all need to stop and think that statistically and historically proven to this day - the black community are the ones who come under murder rates in big cities. The ages range from 18-22 and most of those statistics are mainly black on black crime. I'm sorry, but 90% of "Police brutality" is due to smaller events that turn into a larger one such as a shooting but then hide it with little things such as "he was only selling cds" or "he was just walking down the street listening to music." Bullshit like that get plastered in front of the real picture. Michael Brown? If he wasn't shown on camera prior to his shooting, he would still be alive today. Alton Sterling? It was a convicted felon with a record and he's running around with a firearm? That's dangerous to society!

    It's all lives matter, not just one single race. I'm not saying any of what I said justifies the way police handle issues. There are corrupt officers, yes; have a look..

     
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  16. Mistress

    Mistress murdered everybody Member

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  18. Snog:
  19. insanium
  20. I understand that police officers are trying to do their job but five shots? Also with having him on the ground that should've been the FIRST thing they did. Cops always pat people down before doing anything, so this is a fault on the police. This shooting could've probably all been avoided, but it wasn't. Now he's dead and a lot of people want some fingers to be pointed at someone. It happens all the time. Somebody dies and people want to point the finger at a guilty person, it's just awful to hear and it's honestly the exact reason I don't watch the news. If I can't watch anything good on the news then I don't want to know it, call me oblivious or being ignorant I don't care but when this is the type of stuff that shows up about every 3-5 months I don't want to watch the news. I thought I was afraid to go outside in my own neighborhood, no, I'm afraid to go outside anywhere because I don't know who I should be wary of anymore. It's just not safe and thats not right. Nothing about that is right. The fact that I'm not sure if I should be afraid of the man walking down the street, or the police officer there to protect me just makes me uncomfortable and there is a serious problem with that. I'm not saying every cop is a cold-blooded killer nor a bad cop at that, but there are some cops that just don't know when is the right time to act a certain way.

    Now to regard to the five shots, I learned something about police guns. The guns given to police officers do not fire on the first shot. Thats why you always hear cops shooting like 15 times at someone, first shot isn't an actual shot its just a click. Does that make it right to empty the clip on someone, no. But I understand why it happens, its the fear. Imagine that, someone is charging at you and your gun just clicks - doesn't fire. Everybody is human, humans have fear. Cops are not superior beings, they are the same people that walk along the street every day. They eat, sleep, breathe just like everybody else. Some people need to understand that some people make mistakes. Notice I say some because others are just blatantly wrong in their actions, but not all. Some instances are horrible and tragic events, but until the evidence is given I honestly can't tell what the fuck this country is doing anymore.
     
  21. Lust

    Lust Registered User Member

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  23. "we are trained to trust the police but the police are trained to distrust us".
    think about this. it's sad it has got to the point where we don't even know how to view the people that are supposed to protect our people and communities every time something like this happens. obviously the case itself will be deemed inconclusive due to "lack of evidence", this has happened multiple times now and it might as well be routine.

    but.. you know what's weird to me? news coverage here hasn't mentioned alton sterling at all. the media tries to justify and pacify the actions of the policemen involved when at the end of the day, a man lost his life due to poor thinking and wrong decisions. but y'know, not like the media want to admit that or anything. a man has had cut short of his life, a family left without a member purely because some police act like god and will stray away from protecting others just to prove a point, yet the media doesn't seem to want to address this matter. 5 shots was unnecessary. sure, he had a past record but i don't think that makes it okay in any way to kill someone.
     
  24. Oscar

    Oscar cute Member

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  26. No and I don't see how it can possibly be justified.

    But what's even worse for me is how people are praising the shootings of police officers in Dallas, absolutely vile for people to say that they deserved it. Don't think it does any favours for police reform when people are acting like animals.

    For me, firstly guns shouldn't be legal but that's another debate, and ordinary officers shouldn't be allowed them. Before this happens, police officers should have cameras on them or their gun.
     
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  27. Pad

    Pad ginger snap -hacked by amelia- Member

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  29. only problem with the ALM campaigners' is they're quite quick to pass judgement when the BLM campainers start arguing about how african americans are extremely racially profiled and stereotyped in the 21st century.

    plus with the events of last night in the states, expect there to be extremely high levels of tension
     
  30. Deity

    Deity dull Member

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  32. except you can't see what he's reaching for at all. his arm is mostly blocked by the car. if anything he could just be writhing after being tased (since his left arm is moving as well). and y'know, not like we can ask the guy because he's dead. lol.

    i dunno man, is it that crazy to think after tasing someone twice you should be able to disarm them and arrest them, especially when there's two trained officers? was five bullets to the chest really necessary? of course this is police brutality.

    basically this. he would've gone to jail regardless because it was illegal for him to have the gun. however i really don't think the situation needed to end up with him being shot bc points above.
    nor do i think these officers will be charged with anything, as you've already gone over. if that object was really a gun, and the fact that it looks like sterling's reaching for that gun (although you can kinda argue against it, once again points above) that'll be enough for them to dismiss it.

    okay ily tyler but let's just talk about this for a minute
    1) this is the same for any other race. white people kill more white people. hispanics kill more hispanics. this is probably because most people live in (insert race here) dominant neighborhoods and therefore have limited interactions with other races. while this may not be true for you, it's still a thing. this statistic really doesn't prove or disprove anything & is kinda irrelevant to the argument.
    2) the difference between black on black crime and white/cop on black crime is the fact that the black murderer in your case is more likely to be arrested. i could kill Mistress and i'll be arrested before the story hits the news. a cop kills her and now we need excuses upon excuses as to why they were justified. "she lived in a terrible neighborhood" "she worked on a forum for an illegal website" etc.
    3) black people aren't killing each other because they're black. white/cop on black crime usually has racist motivations, and that's why groups like BLM protest it so much. no black person is gonna kill another black person over their skin color. maybe there's some odd case you can dig up but it's not the motivation of most of those crimes (if it were we'd be discussing them way more often).

    that still doesn't mean they had to murder him like that. arrest him, sure. killing him isn't necessary.

    finally this.
    a common misconception regarding black lives matter is that it excludes other races and says that only black people matter. that's not true at all. it's "black lives matter too." all lives won't matter until black and other POC lives matter as well.
    saying all lives matter in response to BLM is like going to a breast cancer walk and saying "well what about lung cancer? all cancers matter." it misses the point entirely.
     
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  33. Nazi

    Nazi High Roller High Roller

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